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News/Business. (2013) Rand Paul; Peter King; Richard Blumenthal; Natasha Trethewey; Evan Bayh; Dennis Kucinich. New. (CC) (Stereo)

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Us 14, Spiriva 6, Christie 5, Nsa 5, Paul 4, Fisa 3, United States 3, Washington 3, Copd 3, New York 2, U.s. 2, Chris Wallace 2, John Roberts 1, John 1, Pelosi 1, Dennis 1, Pete King 1, Sally 1, Keith Alexander 1, Jim Bush 1,
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  FOX    FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace    News/Business.  (2013) Rand Paul; Peter King; Richard  
   Blumenthal; Natasha Trethewey; Evan Bayh; Dennis Kucinich. New....  

    August 18, 2013
    10:00 - 11:01am PDT  

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. i'm john roberts in for chris wallace. new allegations rock the nsa. documents leeng s beaked leakedd thousands of violations. >> what you are not reading about is the government actually abusing these programs. >> we'll discuss with the key member of the homeland security committee and critic of the nda, kentucky senator, rand paul. crack down on supporters of leader leaves hundreds of people
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dead. >> we'll discuss the situation in the region and the us response with republican congressman of new york and senator rumenthal of connecticut. the obama is forced to play defense. >> this is no longer a political debate. this is what we call the law. >> the president claims that this law is working the way it is supposed to. but clearly it is not. >> we'll ask our sunday panel about the political hall out. all right here on fox news sunday. >> more tough questions for the nsa after the washington post reported this week that the agency violated policy rules.
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>> nation's most secretive spy agency intercepted e-mails and calls during that time and did not report the unauthorized surveillance. joining us with reaction is senator rand paul. senator, welcome back to fox news sunday. good to be with you. >> good morning. >> it was a little more than a week ago that the president insisted to the american people that there was oversight of the program and there was no talk of abuses. >> what you are not reading about is, the government actually abusing these programs. and listening in on people's phone calls or reading people's e-mails. what you are hearing about is the prospect that these could be
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abused. >> senator paul, what do you make of that statement now that this new information has come to light? >> you know, i think that the president missunderstands the constitutional powers. the checks and balances come from independent branchs of government. if they tell him everything is okay, that the nsa can police themselves. one of the things that our founders put in place was they wanted to separate police power from the judiciary power. they didn't want police to write warrants. they wanted an independent responsive to the people with open debate in public. i think these programs need to be questioned and there needs to be a supreme court decision that looks to be constitution al or
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not. >> the foreign intelligence court does not have jurisdiction, does that need to change? >> they may not have jurisdiction but they are only hearing one side of this. if you were to go sit down in a room, you have no means of challenging that. you have no means of alternative information without this leak we wouldn't know of this internal audit. we wouldn't have known that james clapp eper lied to us or senate. yes, they are collecting billions of data on american cell phones every day. a lot of these violations were unintentional but the nsa chose
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not to report this, does that need to change? >> well, they chose not to report the program period. they said they weren't looking at american data or moan caphon and it turns out that they are looking at millions of phone calls every day. there is a similarity between this scandal and others. the president thinks that the irs can do it themselves. he thought the state department could do an internal audit also. the director of national intelligence lied to the senate and greatly damaged the community. he said we had a power point presentation. we had lawyers come together and the only way to find justice is you have to find both sides.
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you have to be more skeptical in the nsa i think before the supreme court on this program. >> when congress comes back to capitol hill in a couple of weeks do you think there needs to be congressional hearings opaon all of this? >> the hard part is we hear one side also. the nsa comes and tells their side and tells us how they foiled these plots. when there is a discussion back and forth. we discover that they did not use this program to get anyone. i think they got most of the terrorists if not all of the plots by good old fashioned police work by getting war rapts on people whom they were sussuspicious of. i'm for surveillance of spies but not for this gross bulk b h
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gathering of data. >> but with more oversight into that program, with more duty to report compliance in other aspects of it. would you be comfortable with it to let it go ahead? >> you know, i think it would be better with more oversight but there are some things that they are doing that i think are unconstitution al. they said a single warrant goes towards a specific individual and what you want to look fore. you ask a judge and you say john smith we think is doing this. the constitution doesn't allow for a single warrant to get a billion phone records. they get a bill that says we want all of the phone calls. they are looking at all of the cell phone calls in america
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every day. also don't think it is good police work. i think we get over whelmed with data and we don't notice when someone goes back to another country his name is misspelled and we need people to do certain data on people we have s suspicious of. >> let me talk to you about obamacare. you support the defunding of it. but you don't believe it is going to happen and get through the senate. your only leave then is to not approve the continuing resolution. that would shut down the government which you had stated publicly is not a good idea. what do you have left here, senator? >> i don't think shutting down the government is a good idea.
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i do think we were elected to stop this overreach this government takeover of health care. i think insurance premiums will rise and i think the people they want to help, the working class and the poor won't have insurance and they are going to have a penalty. people want us to stand up and fight. we should use the leverage of controlling one third of the government. they should stand up, use that power to make this lawless bad, delay it. do something we can to protect the american public from this law and or if we do nothing, you say hey, you get your way. when the government is divided we should control part of dpo government to get the law more to our liking. you are talking about trying to
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pass the bill in the house. they might delay the individual mandate, but there are plenty of bills that have gone to conference and so the laws neglected as it is. >> you know, i don't know. i think there is always a great desire not to shut the government down. to use that not to get a compromise. you could make the lawless bad or delay the whole thing. even the president is concerned about this law because he is delaying the mandate because he is concerned it may be about what could happen in the elections. when it is seen that insurance premiums go up. >> you have said that you would not go for a continuing resolution in the senate if it includes funding for obamacare.
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but the house did the same thing as you suggested that you would. that would shut down the government because the resolution wouldn't pass. if you are trying to have it both ways while the house has to have it one way. >> i think what would happen is that the house would come to the senate and then the senate would approve obamacare funding. >> and then a compromise would be achieved. but it is only achieved if the house stands up and believes that it will hurt people. if they stand up and they are strong i think the strength would be used to achieve a comprom ice. but there are many conservatives like myself saying obamacare is going to be a disaster for the
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country. they say stand firm, stand up and try to stop this, because it is going to be bad for the country. >> harry reid was recently asked if the ultimate goal of the program was to move to a single pay you're system. yes, yes absolutely yes. if they tried to move to a single pay you're system, what would be your response? >> i think it is amazing that policieses are forth right. people need to think bit. the goal may mean that everybody in the country gets medicaid. i think it is a bad idea. 85% of us had health insurance. we should have tried to fix it for the people who had it instead of those who isn't.
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our main concern was the price rising. he's actually made insurance more expensive because of his man da mandates and making the insurance cover more items. >> calling on the president to end foreig assistance egypt. that relationship allows american milt military over flights and if you were to remove that assistance, could you damage your relationship that the united states need to have with an important ally in the middle east? >> well the law is what the law is. and the president is in defiance of the law. when there is a military take over our aid must end. not that it might end.
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>> but there are way to avoid that. the question. >> >>: ending military said egypt be a prudent thing to do? >> yes. because the thing is, i don't think we are buying any love of the egyptian people when they see an american tank on the street, do you think that buys any friendship with the egyptian people? >> what happens is foreign aid egypt is more likely to buy a chateut. they see our aid as something to goes to the people that are dictate tors that have been taking away our rights and they see it stolen. he had fancy homes all around the world with our money.
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it shows nothing but american weakness to continue it. those who want to continue to say we are projecting american power and american weakness. it shows that we are so weak that we will not adhere to their own conditions on this aid. the egyptians continue to do the same thing. when they roll tanks over protesters that is not something that most americans would support. >> i would like to look at politics for a second. there has been a public spat between your camp and the chris christie camp. after governor christie's statements about the republican party should be trying to win elections. we shouldn't be the party of ideas and we shouldn't care what
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we care for. pry vytice many is the problem not the solution. and your father came out and said he offers nothing. do you agree with your father? >> well, i would say the party is big enough for both of us. and in fact, we don't need to, this all started with him saying we don't have room for libertarian republicans. that is how we grow our party. we care about the right to privacy. i think that will bring new people to our party. the party in the northeast is shri shrinking. so, saying there is no room for us was a big mistake on our
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part. but again, do you agree with your father when he says governor christie offers nothing? >> what i would say is that there is room for people who believe in bigger government in our party. i think that some of the things that he seems to have promoted make us believe that he thinks that there is a lot more spending that could go on. i think that national defense is actually to be very, very frugal with other spending. >> senator, good to talk to you this morning. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> with the continuing turmoil in egypt. a lot of eyes are on the u.s. and it's response. two key lawmakers are kcoming u next. what happened so we could be a better, safer what happeenergy company.
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while we want to sustain our relationship with egypt. as a result, this morning we notified the government that we are canceling the meeting which was scheduled for next month. president obama criticizing the growing violence with egypt. they are considering to ban the
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muslim brotherhood. leiland vitter has the latest. good afternoon. >> reporter: good afternoon john the muslim brotherhood's week of rage surrounded the supreme court there as they had intelligence as gunman were headed there. th yesterday gunman used the mosque to fire out at the crowd but also at the army down below. as the police came out, they were greeted by cheers from the surrounding groups there. the military is now thinking of
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outlawing the muslim brother hood including the leader of al qaeda and a jihadist there. today on the streets there has been a return to normalcy. it is important to note, despite the blood shed the army has widespread popular support. it is proving to be more of a violent militant organization than a peaceful militant group. >> thank you very much. joining us now to talk about this republican congressman pete king of new york and democratic senator. gentlemen, they for joining us. let's go back to the president and his reaction. >> we don't take sides to any
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political party of political figure. it is tempting inside of egypt to blame the united states or west side for what has gone wrong. we have been blamed by the other side as if we are supporters of morsi. >> senator blum eeenthal, the president appear to have alien ated both sides. >> a gree with the president that the people of egypt have to decide their own fate. the practical reality is that most of the military aid for this fiscal year has been obligated and delivered. in fact all of it except for four f-16's and some helicopters. looking forward i think that the
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approach has to be the condition our future aid on specific steps toward the rule of law and the return to democracy and aid in blocks that are condition ed which is contained in the amendment offered to senators lahey and gram which will come to the floor. >> should the president as senators graham mccain and rand paul suggested cut off all aid or as you are calling in the senate, make it condition al? >> we shouldn't cut off all aid. there are no good choices here. but of the two, there is more opportunity to protect american interest if we work with the military and continue our relationship with the military.
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al qaeda should not be able to gain a foothold. i don't think that could be done with the muslim brotherhood. i would be reluctant to be cutting off aid. we should lean on the military to the extent that we can. i would not allow to undercut them. they have shown that they are not capable of democracy. i would think a stable government would respect the human rights of the minority. i don't know if at this moment in time a democracy is in store for egypt. to the extent that we would influence that. >> do you agree with that? >> well, democracy is in the eye of the beholder. it is unique in the world, we are the greatest nation in the
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history of the world. we have a unique respect for the rights of minorities and individuals. we can impose our own vision of democracy on a country like israel. we have access to air space over egypt. the inassistance that the sibor doer der be policed and closer consultation with some of our allies in the region. the gulf states on what our approach egypt going forward should be. i think we will find that aid that we will with hold is spen sated by said that the gulf states will hold. so i disagree with senator paul
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on eliminating aid and canceling it entirely. i do by the way agree with senator paul that the fisa court needs to hear both sides that we have to have a special advocate. a specific blueprint that i have offered which the president seemed to endorse. >> sing you bring it up, nsa director keith alexander was there at the end of last month, that they are complying with the law and there are appropriate checks and balances. i think it is important to understand the strict oversight that goes in on these programs. the assumption is that people are out there wheeling and dealing and nothing could be further from the truth. we have tremendous oversight and
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compliance with these programs. >> congressman, you are a staunch defender of these programs. it is clear that mistakes are being made and in many cases they are not reporting those mistakes. i fully disagree with what senator rand paul said. that was a grab bag coming from him. take rand paul's own numbers. it is not really true. but assume he is right for once. you jux oppose that with violations which were self reported. you are talking about 1900 of them being foreigners when they came to the u.s. it wasn't transferred over the way that it was supposed to be. the others were, records that were kept by accident. to me a scandal is somehow using
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force to go after them. what over mistakes were made that is better than most media people do, and i have a tremendous respect for the tone of snooping and spying that we use. it is a distortion and a smear on good americans. >> hang on for a second. you said that everything was self reported by the nsa. you said the documents clearly show that the violations were not clearly reported at least not to the court whose members cham they do not have the power to initiate. is there a problem here? >> it worked. if you have 99.99% compliance and you have self reporting errors. this becomes part of an overall ig report.
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i am satisfied that -- john, who else in government -- >> did you know congressman king all of what was reported by the end of the week? >> it was all available. and it shows that the system works. >> anything in that report that came to light at the end of the week that bother you? >> there is a lot that bothers me and i share congressman king's respect for the brave and dedicated men and women who do our national security work. the problem is with the system. it is a black box. the fisa court is a secret tribu tribuneal making secret law and a lot of it completely unavailable to the foreign intelligence committee.
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i believe there need to be changes in the fisa court. and i would establish a special advocate who would be in place for representing a special constitution. no delay. and warrants to be issued as much as they are now. but, also a change in the method of collecting the court to represent greater diversity and transparency in the operation. i think we are at a critical junk tour a turning point because there needs to be continued surveillance and intelligence gathering but the trust of the system is gravely at risk and that is why we need these reforms. >> it is clear this is going to be a big topic of discussion when congress returns after the
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labor day weekend. >> nancy pelosi said press reports with the national security agency broke privacy rules thousands of times a year and we sought to shield privacy v violations are disturbing. >> do you think she is way off in left field here? >> i think she is wrong. let me say this raises a larger issue. it is up to the president to come forward and defend her. a number of us are defending the program. the president of the united states should be out there and a lot of these distortions are able to take hold. the president has been relatively silent. he should be out there addressing the nation on this going into detail and if there have to be reforms, fine. let's address them. i fully agree with his tone and attitude and that is an area
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that we can discussion. what bothers me is that some talk about corrupt operations going on here. let's have an intelligent debate on that. >> you have declared your desire to run for president in 2016. maybe you will have a chance to defend the program. thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> next, more on this week's revelation that the agency broke rules many times. what happens when the nation's super secret spy agency gets slop sloppy? look at 'em.
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a general impression has taken hold around the world that somehow we are taking in information willy nilly information about everybody and doing what we please with it and that is not the case. >> the new revelations in the washington post seem to contradict contradict. mistakes are a part of life. >> i mean not necessarily in context as congressman king just
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side of the overall calls that are being put into work that the nsa is doing. the only question here is there any evidence that the government is abusing it's power to spy on american peoples? >> we still do not have any evidence of that? >> do you believe that? >> anytime our privacy is at stake americans have to take that seriously. there needs to be an advocate for privacy. there need to be more resources so that the branchs of government can police this thing. 80% of the violations were either technical in nature or involved typographical errors and 100% of them were in add vertant. there is not a conspiracy out there where they are listening
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in on our conversations. >> congressman, you know, you came out strongly on this topic the other day, that a lot of these violations -- >> congress largely kept in the dark, the foreign intelligence court kept in the dark. apparently the president isn't aware. so when you have the 4th amendment at stake here and by reference the first amendment we have an obligation here. it appears that they have gone rogue and we have to insist that they be reigned in. and go back to having a country that works on the 4th amendment to be protected against unreasonable search and seizure. go get a warrant.
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>> i don't think this is nsa gone rogue. i think this is a large agency making mistakes. which is troubling. we need more information and we need more oversight that is great. your right to privacy needs to be balanced against my right and your right against a terrorist attack. >> this is a good debate to be had. we had a lot of information now. true to know what does work to prevent an attack. one of the things that senator paul brings up. is that there is so much information that we are losing good information on the ground that -- >> how do you ever sit through it all? >> to push back here throw, we want a program that does the job effectively and safeguards the
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right. >> the court needs more oversight in general. a lot of smart people have looked at this and pointed out that the most effective way that the executive branch that puts these things into place that does the job is to know that it is politically responsible that it goes wrong when it doesn't work. you are layering on when it goes badly everybody gets to point their fingers and say now we need a commission as to what went wrong. 10% of the errors are t typographical errors. the system ant able to tell the difference between that. i think it is healthy that dennis and senator paul is
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working on this. anytime our privacy is at steak you want to work on this. there weren't enough resources to work on this. around whether you call in an advocate or not. we need someone in there standing up for the prafivacy rights. >> i will say this again. i voted against the patriot act. most members of congress had 12 hours of hearings. they swapped the bill out and had the draconian powers for government. if we don't take a stand for privacy here. we would let the nsa redefine this for americans. >> on one side you have no big deal and on the other side you have them saying no nsa.
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>> i think everyone agrees that privacy rights are more important. if you don't have the debate. they scoop up the phone records of 3,000 people in washington d.c. >> isn't the point hear what evidence is there of abuse? >> 100% of the mistakes were unintentional. but it is not the government out there recording our conversations. >> i would say the term scandal and you know agency gone rogue is applied to this. this is a program the bones of this program are needed i think. and we need to make sure that there is oversight. >> cia, hello. what is the nsa about? >> they have overreached into people's private lives. >> when we come back.
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new jersey governor christie. is this feud good for the candidates but bad for the party? coming up next. psh
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. another delay for obamacare will republicans be able to take advantage? >> the republican's plan to to try to defund this thing. do you think that they have a chance at doing that? >> i don't. they control one chamber. and i think it is a mistake to pick a fight like that, that you can't win. when you throthe threaten to sh
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the government it is a mistake on the part of the republicans that want to do that. >> he said he would like to see the mandate delayed? >> it is unfair to delay the mandate and then say to people, by the way, you have to have health fshanc aninsurance? >> it is not fair. it is starting to look like a train where they are decoupling an engine who is on it? >> we have a for profit system where the insurance companies who keep raising their rates and they are winning. already americans are growing broke and this thing is a mess. >> it is that and also you have to look at the thing that is they have delayed in terms of
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the mandate and the out of pocket limits. are they doing that because they realize what this is going to do to insurance premiums? >> we are likely to see an explosion in the fall. this alongside of the fact that they are trying to sign people up for this. do you know how many people don't sign up for medicaid? it is there, available to them, one in four people eligible don't sign up? >> there is another piece of this that has come to light. the person was asking was the ultimate goal to move it to a single payor system. >> what we have done here is a step in the right direction. but we are far from having something that is going to work. >> yes. >> absolutely yes.
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work beyond insurance. is that the ultimate goal here? >> like all of us that give lots and lots of interviews. the important thing is to try and deal with the law that is on the books now. >> it is a large complex piece of legislation. changes have to be made. the administration is showing a pragmatic streak here. the most important thing is what can we do to get the costs down. if we delay the mandate that may help in the short run but you have to look at the life time caps. so we are going to be a year or two before we know how this is going to play out. if you repealed the whole thing you would see costs go up. you know, that is going to vary
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from state to state. >> let's get into some of that. it was rolling out new tools to try to match the democrats in their big data collection. they got handed hatheir lunch o that front. does the rnc have a chance to beat the democrats? >> yes, i think the democrats outstruck republicans on 2012 on the get out the vote effort and frankly in fairness to the republican ticket had the time to build that infrastructure. the other thing is there is going to be this interesting split with the republican party coming up where they clearly are going to have a strong voice in
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the next round. >> what do you make of the span between christie and paul? >> i think it reflects what ought to be happening inside of a party. should we be intervening or spying. >> you know what, politics -- >> when you look at the potential field 2016 candidates, you have ruby, oh ryan, jim bush, condoleeza rise and then you have hillary. the fact that the republican field is so broad is that a good or bad thing? >> it is a hopeful thing. you could have positive debates. on the strong policy issues, this could be a race to the top. the question is going to be whether this is mud slinging or whether it gets back to something else. >> does anybody beat hillary?
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>> short answer no. you can't offend women, hispanics and young people and win presidential elections. >> remember our discussion continues every sunday on panel plus. you can find it on our website, at foxnewssunday.com. up next our power player of the week. i have copd. if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and man, you know how that feels. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate.
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people to use, but in february we found a woman who used poetry to reach out and heal. here is chris wallace with his power player of the week. >> to comfort us when we have losses celebrate with us our joys and triumphs. >> she is talking about poetry and the role she says it continues to play. not as accessible as video images. but something deeper. >> to keep record. >> sometimes our every day speech has a way of saying this is me and that is you and we are different. and i think poetry has a way of
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saying this is my experience and you can share it with me. >> truth be told i do not want to -- >> working out of the library of congress, her job is to spread her love of poetry. >> i get inspired. >> she describes her role as a she cheer lider. it seems natural to be passionate about something. >> her father is white. other mother black. they had to leave mississippi in the 1960s to get married. how do you think it affected you the idea that your parent's marriage was a crime? >> well, i think that it created in me a sense of psychological exile. >> and when she was 19, her
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mother was murdered by her former stepfather. >> i tried to make sense of that loss. >> here the dead stand up in stone. i stand on ground once hollowed by -- >> she won a pulitzer prize in 2007. about a forgotten union regiment that fought in the civil war. >> we know that it is our duty now to keep white men as would be masters. >> she wrote that poem and would look up at a pillar marked poetry. >> and now that i do it i can't see it so clearly but i have faith that it is there. >> so she will continue to cheer
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lead in a world that doesn't always value that. >> trying to find a way to say what seems so necessary to be said but so difficult also to someone that i can speak intimately to. across time and space on the page that is thrilling to me. >> this summer the library of congress appointed her to a second term. but her time in washington is coming to an end. she is going to spend her second term touring the country. that is it for today. have a great week. thank you for joining us. [ marco ] i'm a student at devry university.
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and this is my home team. this is my large lecture hall. this is my professor. and also my coach. this is my booster club. this is the guy who's graduating ready for a great career in technology. [ male announcer ] in 2012, 90% of devry university grads actively seeking employment had careers in their field in 6 months. find your career success in the bay area. learn how at devry.edu.
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>> announcer: the proceeding program is a paid advertisement for lifelock identity theft protection. today on "living well with montel"... >> something was terribly, terribly wrong. >> announcer: when the fraudulent bills started showing up, it was bad. >> i had not applied for any of these things. >> announcer: what happened next was worse. >> the woman told me, "the credit cards have been activated from your home phone." >> announcer: 30 years ago, she was a hardworking single mom fresh from college, so why couldn't she open a line of credit? >> finding out that i was $112,000 in debt was devastating. >> announcer: three decades later, it happened again. it's identity theft, one of the

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